used lexus : I've driven a couple Avalon XLS and Camry XLS , they provide all theimportant aspects of the driver experiences of the Lexus GS, LS, andespecially the ES. However, they don't provide prestige, but the cat isgetting out of the bag - anybody that buys a used Lexus is a sucker. And,no matter what you want to believe, mechanically and electrically Lexus isbetter than MB or BMW. Times are changing in the used Lexus market. Plusfor the amount of money of a used LS you can buy a new top-end Toyota withbetter warranty, equal reliability, Toyota parts that are 25% to 50% lessthan Lexus, and system designs that less costly and catastrophic to repair.So to all new Lexus buyers enjoy them for a long time. Your depreciationexpense is going to go up dramatically by 2005 because reliability is goingdown and repair expenses are too high. The market will react by then. Toall you used Lexus buyers, enjoy the satisfaction of spending your tangiblemoney even faster and less wisely than the well-heeled - but the intangibleprestige of owning a Lexus is about to lose it's appeal.
used lexus : I disagree about used Lexus (I got one this year of course). I leased acertified 98 LS and have a 3 year/100k warranty. Also since the bigdepreciation hit already is gone, it's a hell of a deal. My payments arethe same as buying a $15k car over 3 years. To me, that's a bargain for thenice car I have.Appreciate the point of view for a lease, I pay cash for expenses andfinance assets. A non-collectible car is a depreciating property expense.Hence, I pay cash for cars. A house or tangible business is an asset. I amcareful not confuse the two. When I went through the math the top of theline Toyota and Honda still came out ahead. The durability is the same, infact, a little better on a few systems. The salvage value is just as highon a NPV analysis with characteristic depreciation for both late models.Repair costs, and there will be a few, are dramatically less with Toyota andHonda than Lexus. Insurance is less. Fuel economy is better. Comfort isclose, but granted not exactly the same. Lexus has slightly better crashperformance on older model vehicles, it does not appear as far out ahead ofToyotas and Hondas on later models.
used lexus : All things considered, Lexus still appears to be in trouble with respect toan economic "hell of a deal".The reasoning of "value for money" and "breaking even" only goes so far. Iknow that a Camry is cheaper to drive and to maintain. A Corolla is cheaperthan that. I can ride my bike to work no sweat. Anyone arguing that a Lexusis a cheap car is fooling himself. I hate to sound snobbish, but the feelingI get when I park my Lexus next to the sucker in the Pontiac is simply, tospeak with Mastercard, priceless. For me, it's not a matter of economics,I'd be curious to hear from Lexus owners who think it is.Mischa.I like your response. It gets to the passion of the Lexus buyer more thanthe cold calculated "facts". But, what attracts a buyer to Lexus overBritish, Italian, and German prestige automobiles. The European machineshave more passion and less value proposition. And, why Lexus over the otherAsian machines like Infinity or Accura?It looks to me like Lexus built the passion on a foundation of quality,mechanical precision, and attention to detail. However, the quality anddetail elements started to erode with the 430. The "tweaks" and "makeovers" were necessary but they have essentially removed the "over built"nature of the car for us detailed oriented types.
used lexus : And what can I say about repair and parts costs? There is nothing"mastercard priceless" about paying 50% more for an oil filter than the samething sold under the Toyota name. There is nothing romantic about a $1,500air conditioner fix (Lexus A/C units are a design and operation weaknessamong a few other systems). To think that you need to buy an extendedwarranty for a "certified" Lexus is a statement about a lack of confidencein the durability of the machine (one of the other respondents mentioned a"hell of a deal" with a lease and warranty).Hope nobody is offended, but I'm trying to understand why I and others areattracted to Lexus. I'm questioning my loyalty to buying another one givenwhat I see starting to happen with the Lexus badge. Passion won't last withthis brand if management leads us to a false economy.I'm from Europe and therefore more interested in cars that are rarer there. And, why Lexus over the otherI do think Lexus has a better reputation than the other ones. Only Lexus hasa V8 in a "sports" sedan (GS4x0)What makes you think so? I'm not saying you're wrong or right, just curious.
used lexus : The "tweaks" and "makeMay be, but frankly, I don't really care whether I pay $25 or $50 for an oilfilter. If the repair takes longer than a bit I get a loaner car. My time ismore valuable than the savings I could get for going to pepboys. I've beenreading this newsgroup for a while now, but have rarely seen complaintsabout the A/C and if they were, it was after years of use. Correct me if I'mwrong.Just for fun, I checked out the MB newsgroup and some stories in there arejust horrific. I know, from an objective perspective that doesn't meananything (maybe few Lexus owners have a computer ;-), but my point is thatreally expensive repairs like transmissions, engines, body parts (rust) seemto be a negligable issue with Lexus. To think that you need to buy an extendedI don't see anybody mention that in this thread. It says more about thesalesman or the ignorance of the buyer.I'm not sure what you're targeting at. You mentioned eroding quality andinflated prices due to perceived value retention. I thought that was aninteresting point. If I pay "too much" for my used car, for whatever reason,I'll be able to sell it again for "too much". If I finance my car, I end uppaying more in interest due to these inflated prices, but that's only afraction if you compare that to financing an "uninflated" price. Doesanybody have any idea of Total Cost of Ownership of these kinds of cars andhow they do compare? I'm truly interested in seeing an ES300 versus a Camryor an LS430 versus any full size domestic sedan.BTW, I live in Atlanta and the nice cars come only out at Friday andSaturday during "cruising". Although I wouldn't want to be associated withthe people driving them, much less try to one-up them!
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